tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7379581147262228210.post837015134576773235..comments2024-03-16T17:24:36.065-04:00Comments on Outlandish Observations: Episode 208: "The Fox's Lair" (SPOILERS)Karen Henryhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07635855088490793965noreply@blogger.comBlogger18125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7379581147262228210.post-36772711346691006932016-06-05T19:33:13.635-04:002016-06-05T19:33:13.635-04:00Karen- I have finally caught up on your recaps and...Karen- I have finally caught up on your recaps and once again you are spot on! I was trying so hard this season to continue to champion the show! I love the acting! Sam & Cait have truly brought Jaime and Claire to life! However the total deviations from wonderful source material<br />Of over 700 pages has just lost my confidence!!! You analyze what is bothering me as a book lover specifically and with perfect logic! Thank you for taking the time and for the references! The series needs a nit-picker for sure! And this ep had a J&C that were not true to the written characters!<br />BetsyGhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09825965757729686675noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7379581147262228210.post-35652013323570466512016-06-01T03:04:25.966-04:002016-06-01T03:04:25.966-04:00Karen,
Please dinna be disheartened by the post by...Karen,<br />Please dinna be disheartened by the post by Ms. Myers. I like reading your re-caps, and I, too, have read the books (and re-read the parts that speak to my soul). Her comment that you post spoilers and then refer to the book ahead in the series is unfair and off-base. The fact that Jamie didn't know what "Leghair" had done was mentioned in the future books, and he even told Claire that he never would have married her had he known. That is an important event that is now affected by the events in this particular episode. Thank you for discussing them honestly. I also cringed at the incorrect use of the word 'hung.' ;-) When will people realize that words have meaning, and how you say something indicates your knowledge of their importance?<br />Keep up the good work!triple gnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7379581147262228210.post-20117006688552885132016-05-31T17:03:18.098-04:002016-05-31T17:03:18.098-04:00I am a very faithful reader of the books and have ...I am a very faithful reader of the books and have enjoyed season one very much. Season two not so much though. Too many deviations from the characters we know and love. We love the books and totally understand Jamie and Claire. We recognize when the tv show shows them so out of character. It was not like Claire in the Appology scene with L and then again with Claire asking for her help. She would not believe L's very false claims of repentance, she is a much better judge of character to than to fall for that. She would not ask Jamie to thank the wench, she wouldn't watch her sniff Jamie's shirt and not realize what her true feelings still are for Jamie. <br />I'm very very disappointed L was even in this episode, it is totally unnecessary to have her rear her evil head at this point. I don't understand why Ron thinks he needs to change the beautiful books so drastically. I am truly afraid of what he will do with that part of the story in Voyager....their marriage was loveless and a huge mistake but I don't think Ron will show it that way. It will be very heartbreaking if we have to see Jamie and L in a loving relationship...that would be TOTALLY WRONG..........probably enough to make me stop watching the show. <br />This episode is such a disappointment after I had been anticipating their return to Scotland so eagerly. <br />Stick to the books Ron, that is where the biggest fan base lies, we are who love these characters and know them so well.Diannenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7379581147262228210.post-59742958839504645082016-05-30T17:06:19.327-04:002016-05-30T17:06:19.327-04:00I agree that Laoghaire's role in this episode ...I agree that Laoghaire's role in this episode is unnecessary and intrusive. Jamie was most definitely NOT supposed to know about her part in Claire's arrest as a witch in Season 1 at this point in time. How the TV writer's will explain Jamie's actions next season will be interesting to see. I don't mind departures from the books that forward the story in the TV medium, but anything that weakens the strong qualities of Gabaldon's main characters (honesty, honorableness, kindness, fairness, emotional courage, compassion, etc.) sits poorly with me. Claire's attitudes, words, and actions toward Laoghaire in this episode do just that, as does Jamie's willingness to sign over Lallybroch to Lord Lovat. Those changes in this episode marred my enjoyment of it.Moseyerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06260450440771313421noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7379581147262228210.post-74616347585340593502016-05-30T14:40:20.557-04:002016-05-30T14:40:20.557-04:00I live in a farming area and know how farmers feel...I live in a farming area and know how farmers feel about their land. Our county has a land preservation program whereby farmers can put their land into preservation so that it can never be developed. That is what my sister and I did with our family farm because we knew that our dad would be "birling" in his grave if the farm he loved was ever deve!oped. Likewise, it is hard for me to believe the storyline of Jamie ever signing his family farm over to that scheming old fox. Susanlynn♥noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7379581147262228210.post-64848023203092964902016-05-30T13:41:54.980-04:002016-05-30T13:41:54.980-04:00By elevating Laoghaire in Season 1 for dramatic ef...By elevating Laoghaire in Season 1 for dramatic effect in an effort to develop the supporting characters more fully, Ron Moore dug himself a hole and now he has to dig himself out with this Season 2 injection of Laoghaire. I don't blame Anne Kenney, she got her marching orders and did the best she could. It was too contrived. I can understand the dramatic choice to have Laoghaire portrayed as more scheming and spiteful, but the ramifications of that decision have a ripple effect and even Anne Kenney didn't sound convinced that this "quasi redemption" of Laoghaire will be sufficient to make what happens in Voyager plausible. If I put on my non-bookreader hat, all of this seems plausible given the version of Laoghaire we got in Season 1, that after a public beating and a good talking to by Mrs. Fitz that she sought redemption. Even Nell Hudson says that Laoghaire was fooling herself, that once she saw Jamie in the Great Hall, all the feelings for him came rushing back and what she really wanted was his forgiveness and his love. She knows that the only way to earn Jamie's forgiveness is to first earn Claire's. But will non-bookreaders believe the events of Voyager? <br /><br />I agree that although some reveled in Claire's vindictive response to Laoghaire, it is out of character for Claire and beneath her. Of course, TV Claire slaps Laoghaire for putting the ill wish under her bed and trying to seduce Jamie, then she screams at her during the witch trial, so for TV Claire, her response to Laoghaire in this episode is believable. This girl just brings out Claire's dark side. I also thought Jamie's willingness to sign away Lallybroch was out of character and they should have come up with something more intelligent than Claire's playing Le Dame Blanche in front of all those witnesses which was extremely dangerous. It is one thing to dissuade Lord Lovat from having Claire gang raped by telling him Claire is a White Lady, because he knows his grand-sire is superstitious. It is another to have a public display that could land Claire back in the thieves hole. Even though Jamie says that they didn't understand at the trial that she was not a witch, but one of the Auld Ones, such public displays are dangerous.Kathy Van Wesephttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10440959347126542430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7379581147262228210.post-87750289714896004042016-05-30T13:26:55.495-04:002016-05-30T13:26:55.495-04:00Executive producer and developer, Ron D. Moore'...Executive producer and developer, <a href="https://outlander-online.com/2016/05/28/ron-d-moores-podcast-for-episode-2x08-of-outlander-the-foxs-lair/" rel="nofollow">Ron D. Moore's podcast for Episode 2.08 with writer Anne Kenney</a> explains a bit more about the inclusion of Lord Lovat's attempted kidnapping of Jamie & Jenny's mother:<br />ff 09:28 Anne Kenny explains:<br /><i>..."Lord Lovat is a real historical character, um, so that was interesting too to comb through the real history and then weave it in here. And at some point, he did in fact - wasn't of course Jamie's mother - but somebody had him kidnap their wife and take her out to the Monach Isles and leave her there. She spent the rest of her life out there because they wanted to get rid of her. And so it was kind of fun to take those little bits and plug them in here."...</i>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7379581147262228210.post-78292546756045681632016-05-30T10:56:57.740-04:002016-05-30T10:56:57.740-04:00Hi Karen , I found this episode disappointing in a...Hi Karen , I found this episode disappointing in a lot of ways , one was the Lallybroch scenes went too fast , but liked them anyway , liked the scenes with the Potatoes also and the baby scene was beautiful, and the arguments between Jenny & Jamie over going to ask the "Old Fox " for help , believeable, Jamie felt that he didn't have much of a choiceeke . the scenes with Column were very well don't , and with the old Fox , didn't care for the scenes with Laoghaire , felt they were not believeable at all , liked the scenes with Jamie & his grandsire and was glad to see Jamie stand up to him at times, but felt too that Jamie would never have given him lallybroch in order to gain support for Prince Charles , and that Claire would have to save the day again , again not believable , also didn't believe that she'd try to get Young Simon interested in Laoghaire , was a waste , liked the way in finally Young Simon stood up to his father finally in supporting Prince Charles , but felt he was stronger in the book , the scenes in which Claire has Jamie thank Laoghaire , didn't care for , but liked the army going off to support Charles, especially since it was Memorial Day Weekend, perfect ending, I hope the next episode is a lot better, please post more soon, Sincerely Yours. Mary Tormey.Mary Tormeynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7379581147262228210.post-70919453050168686392016-05-30T10:46:10.208-04:002016-05-30T10:46:10.208-04:00I find it very hard to come to terms with TV Jamie...I find it very hard to come to terms with TV Jamie knowing what Laoghaire did to Claire and then doing what he does in Voyager. It does not ring true to me.<br /><br />Also Claire's vengefulness is out of character.<br /><br />I don't see why they mess around with the books the way they do - it certainly does not tell a better story imo.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7379581147262228210.post-72593849207268710742016-05-30T10:23:58.960-04:002016-05-30T10:23:58.960-04:00Thank you so much for your recap. I couldn't a...Thank you so much for your recap. I couldn't add a thing. This was not a favorite episode for me. If, I'm to be perfect try honest, Faith has been the only episode that I really, really loved this series. I loved series 1 but series 2 is just not what I expected. I think I'm so spoiled by DG's beautiful books that it makes the series 2 deviations really hard for me to become more invested in. I know it is an adaptation but I wish we really could stick more to the central characters as DG wrote them-Jamie and Claire. I'm not blaming the actors in any way. Just MHO.Priscillanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7379581147262228210.post-16808447296041168072016-05-30T10:18:57.144-04:002016-05-30T10:18:57.144-04:00Fellow nit-picker here. In Gàidhlig it's spell...Fellow nit-picker here. In Gàidhlig it's spelled Catriona. The Irish Gaelic spelling is with the extra "i."Leslie Gnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7379581147262228210.post-50483807858739414592016-05-30T08:14:48.333-04:002016-05-30T08:14:48.333-04:00I really loved this episode. I felt it brought us ...I really loved this episode. I felt it brought us back to all the good, funny, sad and heartfelt feels of Scotland and Jamie and Claire's relationship. I too was unnerved at first by Claire's reaction to Laoighrie - until I realized that Jamie and Claire's exodus to Lallybroch may not have occurred when it did and therefore Jamie may not have hooked up with the watch and then consequently be captured and sent to Wentworth. In season one Jamie's narration talks about how one choice can set a mans life -his choice of Claire over Laoighrie is more fulfilling for him (and us) but is also filled with suffering. I can't help but believe that Claire's anger is not just for the harm that came to her from Laoighrie's actions but of what eventually happened to Jamie too. Seeing Laoghrie sniff Jamie's shirt was too funny -she can cry and ask for forgiveness all she wants and claim she's changed but she hasn't! I doubt I would have been able to deal with her after seeing thAt as calmly as Claire did! I'm not quite done with the first book now but I have jumped ahead and poked around to see how some things play out - I'm just too curious! I can see why she pops up in this episode! I'm enjoying the tv series for what it is and going back to get more details and twists and turns from the book. Thanks for all your insight!Miss Fitzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03343339503855670028noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7379581147262228210.post-33653061394260868482016-05-30T01:51:40.637-04:002016-05-30T01:51:40.637-04:00Young Simon is Jamie's half-uncle. I know you ...Young Simon is Jamie's half-uncle. I know you meant to write that. People often used "cousin" for various levels of kinship. I was surprised by Laoghaire's appearance, but ... Claire has been through so much, she appears to be conforming to 18th century sensibilities. Why should she even think the girl is sincere? I liked the short shrift Jamie gave Laoghaire. We fans aren't thrilled by unexpected plot turns not in the books, but I don't feel the girl's appearance was a material defect. As always, you saw details I missed. Good work.leaves on the Raney Treehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12711219595014372212noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7379581147262228210.post-81622984905652976112016-05-30T01:04:32.829-04:002016-05-30T01:04:32.829-04:00I don't agree with a lot of opinions here. Th...I don't agree with a lot of opinions here. The most important thing to me is I cringe when you mention books far ahead of the series. I believe so many of us are trying to catch up with the reading so we have both versions, I cringe when you do it. You say major spoilers at the beginning but I believe that looks like you are talking about spoiling the episode not the whole Zoutlander experience. Thanks a lot for telling me he will get with liaghaire later. I didn't want to know that until I read it or saw it. Maybe I don't need to read the books after all of you continue to give away future plot points. Are you just show off that you've read everything? Is your audience the readers? Anyway at the end of the episode it is explained by the writer of this episode something happens involving loaghaire is why she is introduced here. She is kind enough not rogue the whole thing away as you have done. Also if that girl had tried to have me burned at the stake, planted a false letter bringing her to where she'll be captured, I would have been furious. I could see through her pretense and knew she would not give up onJamie or her hatred of Claire. Why do you think the "book" Claire would not mind seeing her after how miserable she was in that prison. Correcting grammar? Hanged not hung? Really?Terrier loverhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13404960752459973012noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7379581147262228210.post-19762499520129505562016-05-30T00:13:27.056-04:002016-05-30T00:13:27.056-04:00I think Jamie seeming ready to sign the deed of sa...I think Jamie seeming ready to sign the deed of sasine was all part of the plan with Claire. And Lovat of course jumped at the opportunity to cover his bases. mehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04592144970447434471noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7379581147262228210.post-39830045577921254682016-05-29T23:22:28.962-04:002016-05-29T23:22:28.962-04:00Karen, I agree completely with most of your points...Karen, I agree completely with most of your points. Laoghaire...no..just..no.<br /><br />My personal connection to OUtlander continues. I grew up on a farm, and my dad grew acres of potatoes. Thus,I have picked, sold, and eaten my fair share of potatoes. We had potatoes every day...baked, boiled, fried, French fried, mashed, scalloped, potato soup, potato pancakes, potato salad. Only Jamie FRaser could make potatoes sexy and romantic, so thanks on behalf of all the potato farmers. <br /><br />The actor playing LOrd Lovat was wonderfully terrible. Good casting . You could believe that Jamie had inherited his height , rugged good looks, and cunning from this old devil.<br /><br />I loved being back home at Lallybroch and seeing JAmie and CLaire's love and devotion evident again as they are surrounded by loved ones. Now, onward to the sadness of separation ahead. And....I appreciated a quick glimpse of shirtless Jamie , but I did not like LAoghaire sniffing his shirt. Ew. I could barely stand reading about their future together let alone watch it play out on the TV screen. How will I stand it?♥Susanlynnnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7379581147262228210.post-61329538610902441962016-05-29T22:40:59.928-04:002016-05-29T22:40:59.928-04:00Well said. Totally agree on Leoghaire and Jame gi...Well said. Totally agree on Leoghaire and Jame giving away Lallybroch. Poor writig & editing. Lack of attention to small details & a major screw-up in the plot line for future seasons. Not only did they jump the shark;they jumped 5 sharks in my opinion.Linda Bnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7379581147262228210.post-56672042178765266022016-05-29T22:27:55.871-04:002016-05-29T22:27:55.871-04:00Hi. Would like to think that perhaps Jamie did h...Hi. Would like to think that perhaps Jamie did hold William as a baby,Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17079062063516796074noreply@blogger.com