ECHO: Claire and Lord John (Part 1)

Below are some comments that I posted on Compuserve earlier this week, regarding the events in the last part of the book between Claire and Lord John.


Don't read further if you haven't yet finished the book! There are some major spoilers here.








Here are my reactions after re-reading Chapter 93 ("A Series of Short, Sharp Shocks"). And I should preface this by saying, I really, really disliked the Claire-marrying-Lord-John subplot the first time I read it. (And said so, in no uncertain terms, to Diana when I first read it, and again on Compuserve recently.) The comments below are from my first re-read, when I made a deliberate effort to go as slowly and carefully through this part of the book as I could manage, and try to keep an open mind.

All right. I made it through this chapter, with my equanimity still intact. Some things I see now, that I didn't before:

Lord John is obviously shattered by the news. Walking the streets for hours (p. 769) - we know from BOTB that he walks like that when he's in shock, or when he needs time to think (after Percy's betrayal, for example).

"[Lord John] wasn't in the habit of lying to himself." (p. 770) - He knows perfectly well what he's feeling and why. Unlike Claire, he doesn't seem to spend any time in denial (or maybe he did, and we didn't see it?)

"But now he'd lost himself." That's a line I did not notice on the first reading, and I think it's significant. Is his relationship with Jamie Fraser so critical to his own self-image, to his own sense of who he is, that losing Jamie really means he's lost HIMSELF? If we were speaking of Claire, I'd say yes, instantly, with no reservations. It surprises me a little that John also feels that way. I knew he loved Jamie, of course, but I didn't realize before that his feelings ran that deep.

I suppose I always felt that Claire loved Jamie more than Lord John did, but I see now that I may have been letting my own feelings get in the way, reading something into the (overall) story that isn't, in fact, there. Now I'm beginning to grasp -- for the first time -- that Lord John might well love Jamie just as much as Claire does. That's not a thought I've been willing to entertain until now. Partly from sheer stubbornness, I suppose <g>, because I love Jamie and Claire's relationship SO much that I tend to resist -- strongly -- the notion that anyone else could love Jamie as much as Claire does. I think that's one reason why I reacted SO negatively to this storyline the first time, before I even got to the sex scene.

And it's not as though I don't KNOW how many times John has demonstrated his love for Jamie, his willingness to do absolutely anything he could for both Jamie and Jamie's family. Sending Jamie to Helwater in the first place, taking Willie to raise as his own son, looking after Brianna in DRUMS when Jamie could not, the many gifts he's sent them over the years, etc. I knew all that, and I STILL didn't believe that Lord John could possibly love Jamie as much as Claire does. Now, I'm wavering. I'm starting to see it. And I think I might be willing to be convinced.

Oh, and speaking of gifts -- about that medical chest. Reading the scene again this evening (pp. 772-773), I can see that from Lord John's point of view, this is (as many people on Compuserve have said) a touching example of his thoughtfulness, trying to give Claire what she needs for her medical practice. Somebody brought up the parallel of Lord John at Ardsmuir, giving Jamie "light and air and horses", and I do agree with that, now that I've taken the time to read this part in a calmer frame of mind (and, more importantly, to see the situation from Lord John's point of view rather than my own!)

As for the idea of Lord John marrying Claire in the first place, I still don't like it, but I do see the necessity of it, given the situation (and as I said before, I do see the parallel between Claire being forced to wed Jamie to escape BJR, and Claire being forced to wed Lord John to escape arrest).

Sorry to go on at such length, but I thought I owed it to Diana, in particular, to try to give a fairly detailed explanation of what I'm seeing on the re-read. I think the discussions on Compuserve are helping, immensely, to put these events into perspective.


JaymeKnits said...

I saw another parallel with the medical Chest. I haven't gone back to check this but the first medical chest that Jaime gave Claire on the boat up the river when they first got to NC, on the way to meet Jocasta. It was some sort of anniversary, present. Wasn't it?

Linda said...

Karen, your points are well taken, BUT and it's a big one...........Claire has always been an independent woman and her love for Jamie is steadfast and true. While I can see that she would marry Lord John to stay out of prison,(still I'm hesitant to even fathom this, but given the times, I accept it) but never ever, ever to sleep with him. Though I do get why Lord John wanted to sleep with her. I found it so hard to believe that Claire would just accept the fact the Jamie was dead without any investigation of her own. It just doesn't fit for me!! It will be very interesting to see how this is addressed in the next book.

Anonymous said...

I agree with you about Claire marrying Lord John. I don't like it and I did not like the fact that they had sex. Couldn't Claire have a proper mourning period? Couldn't she hold out hope that he survived the ship sinking? After all their years together she has to know that he has come back from the "dead" to return to her. I have to say that it was very disappointing to read this part of the book.

NovelEagle said...

You may or may not like the explanation of their coupling that LJG gives to Jamie upon his return but I personally LOVED it because I suspected what was going on at the time.

Unknown said...

I have always thought that Lord John loved Jamie as much as Claire did. You mentionned several proves of it. One prove that is above all for me is that he gives Hector's ring to Jamie without any hesitation nor explanation (just before Bonnet execution).
The other point is that I am not scandalized at all that Claire and Lord John end up in bed. They both are at the paroxysm of pain and mourning. They have cryed, they have drunk. They are the ones that can share their grief. I think it was not deliberate, it was only a question of getting comfort from each other.

Unknown said...

If only Claire had Lord John's child, it would have been a wonderful plot twist

Anonymous said...

To read that Claire and Lord John Grey was extremely disappointing to me. I understood and liked reading the getting married plot, as they were doing it so that LJG could protect her, and I believe Jamie had once asked LJG to take care of Claire in case he died. However, I was shocked and disappointed at the idea of them having sex, and so soon after the news, regardless of how much “comfort” they both needed. I think this was disloyal to Jamie, no matter how the author tries to explain that they were both thinking about Jamie. It did not seem to me that Claire was grieving as much as I would imagine at the news of Jamie’s death. It seemed almost as if she wasn’t mourning his death. Less than a month and she already has sex with someone else? And the whole casual conversation in bed the following morning, as if nothing really important happened? It seems disloyal to his memory, even if they both believed he was dead. I keep thinking about Jamie’s words to Claire in one of the season 6 episodes, when they are talking about the things he loved about her, and he says: “above all creatures on earth, you are loyal.” Well, reading the ending of Echo In The Bone after that has shattered me. I hope this storyline doesn’t make it to the TV show.

Unknown said...

This storyline makes one think about their own relationship/marriage. This was a marriage of convenience, which the author made it out to be a blur for Claire. She didn’t recall it nor believed it really happened. Claire and Jamie talked about France and him being told he was like a cat with nine lives, also from season 6, episode 8. Along with him saying she was loyal. With such a twist as this makes the love for Jamie and Claire weak.

It’s not the marriage, understand 💯. It’s not the mourning that lead to drunken sex. It’s LJG pursuit of Claire on at least two occasions. Both times he searched her out. The first time was in a drunken stupor, were either one able to give consent by today’s standards? The answer would be “no.” Being that he has been portrayed as a gentleman and saying, “I will not be grieving alone tonight,” sent the hairs on the back of my neck raised. A gentleman wouldn’t go to a ladies room unless he was wanting something, gay or not.

The second flag was the peek a boo moment the following morning. If they had sex due to a drunken moment, why did he need to see her naked? He got what he desired the night before. I do understand Claire’s rebuttal of seeing him. It was a tit for tat issue. He didn’t need to look upon her if the act was simply out of grief. To me that changed the whole dynamics and intent of LJG.

The third flag was his reappearing for another excursion a few weeks later. He is seeking her out, not her seeking him. I love how his approach. Basically I’m willing if you are… the fourth was when he brought his attention to his endowment, pouting like a baby awaiting for a happy ending. Claire gives in.

That’s when I lost all respect for LJG. I have questioned his sexuality for awhile. He was jealous of Claire, but was overly jealous of Jamie. His persuit of Claire with the death announcement of Jamie was way out of character for someone who loves Jamie. He had resources at his disposal and he knew there was more than one ship living France and didn’t check. Marries her and didn’t do a true verification of ship manifests. Being a military man, word of mouth doesn’t cut it. Understand Claire was in trouble… marrying her doesn’t raise any questions. Did the drunk sex have to happen? LJG to me would’ve a true hero without it. I honestly believe jealousy of both Claire and Jamie’s relationship. The consummation of the marriage, to me, proves it. Yet we will make him a hero. I guess we have to stir the pot and somehow, in the end, we will find they were all connected.

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